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Drowning Forensics

  THE CASE OF THE DROWNING MEN

Investigating the Smiley Face Murders

'Anatomy of a Drowning' (from chapter 2)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1518780040
For those who think that drowning is a pleasant way to go, think again. Drowning is a violent assault on the body during which the frightened victim fiercely, albeit briefly, battles to survive. Death follows exhaustion within only two or three minutes.
Technically, it is true that a person can drown in as little as a cup of water. A cup, a puddle, a ditch, a bathtub -- anytime liquid enters the air passages and lungs, even if someone doesn’t die immediately, it can still turn fatal because there are a host of medical complications which arise that are always life-threatening, such as pneumonia and renal failure. These type of delayed fatalities are known as “secondary drownings” and, although their symptoms may develop over the course of several days, or even longer for some patients, they’re usually triggered within only a few hours of the initial incident.
But most victims drown fully submerged in water when the nose and mouth inadvertently become covered. Sometimes, when there is an instantaneous glottal spasm blocking off oxygen, or a preexisting medical condition, death can be automatic without any signs of a struggle. In the majority of drownings, however, this is not the case. Struggling is one of the key stages leading to unconsciousness and death. In fact, so intense can this final fight for life be that, in more than ten percent of drowning fatalities, an autopsy will actually reveal bruised and ruptured muscles, particularly in the shoulders, chest and neck. Evidence of injuries of this nature suggest to a medical examiner the strong likelihood that a victim was alive in the water at the time of their demise and not placed there already dead.
The stages of a full-immersion drowning event are fairly quick and, because the victim’s airways are being blocked, either by water and/or the epiglottis, it’s often completely soundless. There will be panicked thrashing as the victim desperately attempts to get air and to grab onto nearby objects for security, and then, when they can no longer hold their breath, they’ll begin to inhale water in large quantities, gulping it into their stomach as well. This action also rapidly circulates water throughout their other systems and bloodstream with differing biochemical reactions depending on whether they’re in saltwater or in fresh. This last stage of drowning ends with coughing, vomiting, convulsions, loss of consciousness, death, and rigormortis.
Very shortly after the victim dies their body will start to sink. If retrieved soon thereafter, their arms and hands may display cadaveric spasm, a posture in death borne out of extreme mental anguish and which reveals the person’s final thoughts and movements as they frantically fought to stay alive.
If a victim is not promptly retrieved at death, then, without exception and no matter how deep or how swift the water may be, their corpse will continue to drift downward until it reaches the bottom. This is where it will remain in a somewhat fetal position until gases from putrefaction cause it to rise to the surface once more. A semi-fetal posture is the norm for all drown victims, so if divers do locate such a body before it ascends, but it isn’t in this pose and/or the head is seen to be tilted to one side, they will include these observations in their police recovery report, as it reveals the victim died on land and was put in the water post-rigormortis.
Typically, once the body does emerge on its own, it will surface in the general vicinity of where the victim originally went under. From this location the water may then carry the corpse along for quite a distance, depending on the strength of the currents or if it becomes ensnared and is thereby prevented.
Refloat largely varies on the water’s depth and temperature, taking only a matter of hours to occur if extremely warm and up to two weeks or longer if at 40 degrees Fahrenheit or less. The timetable, therefore, is not fixed but is loosely as follows: at 40 degrees Fahrenheit it takes approximately fourteen to twenty days for a drown victim’s corpse to resurface; at 50 degrees ten to fourteen days; at 60 degrees seven to ten days; at 70 degrees three to seven days; and at 80+ degrees one to two days or sooner. In very cold and very deep bodies of water, like certain oceans or the Great Lakes of North America, it’s not unusual at all for a drown victim to never resurface, lying on the bottom in a state of suspended decomposition until their body eventually disintegrates or is otherwise destroyed.
But in temperate oceans, rivers, lakes, ponds, pools, reservoirs, quarries, or the like, a corpse will inevitably rise again sooner or later, occasionally exploding to the surface if it was deliberately anchored. And when it does reappear, if the person did genuinely die from drowning, then they will always be discovered floating face down in the water, with the head drooping forward and lower than the rest of the body. Lividity, the pooling of blood and fluids, will then have permanently settled into the under regions of the corpse by then, weighting it from beneath and essentially acting as a ballast so that, even when disturbed, say by a collision with a boat, it will return to this original position.
If one can stomach a physical inspection of the body and knows what to look for, at this point it becomes relatively easy to determine the length of time a victim’s actually been submerged. However, because a previously sunken body could have been slowly dragged along the water’s bed by currents and thereby further damaged against rocks and similar objects, or even partially eaten by marine animals, it may be difficult for the layperson to ascertain if any visible injuries happened in life or were obtained postmortem.
Damaged or not, though, if a body has been in the water for at least one to 48 hours, wrinkling of the skin will be present already, particularly on the palms of the hands and fingertips and on the soles and toes of the feet. Noticeable blanching and bloating of the epidermis may also be underway too, with pronounced blotches and discolorations ranging in hue from pink to dark red distributed unevenly across the body.
In excess of the above time period, the victim’s epidermis may look a greenish bronze and will have begun pimpling and even pre-peeling as fat deposits just beneath it slowly transform into a soapy material and loosen the skin. This is especially true of the flesh on the hands and feet which will slip off on their own―or when tugged on―just like gloves, a process of decay aptly named “degloving”. If signs of degloving are already evident on such a corpse, special care must be taken in recovering the body from the water, as additional harm can easily be inflicted when physically grappling with it or maneuvering it about with hooks and mechanical devices.
Once it has been successfully recovered, a waterlogged body will rapidly deteriorate when fully exposed to air, therefore an autopsy must be performed immediately in order to help determine the exact cause of death and the manner. This may seem superfluous, but the fact is death by drowning is not wholly assumed by medical experts and law enforcement, especially where there have been no witnesses to unequivocally substantiate it.
In forensic terms, there is nothing whatsoever deemed “classic” about any drowning, no one particular physical characteristic manifesting in a corpse that would aid in expediting such a ruling. Because of this, the methodology for reaching a determination that it was a water death and accidental is one that is chiefly focused on excluding foul play. This places a great deal of importance on the initial investigative role of police personnel who could inform or misinform a medical examiner with their onsite reports and early conclusions.
Even the autopsy is insufficient on its own for definitively pinpointing the victim’s cause of death as an accidental drowning, but the line of inquiry a medical examiner follows during this phase of the inquest is to review the circumstances of how the deceased person reportedly first entered the water and to try to judge if the body they’re viewing matches up to that version of events. If so, and the death indeed appears benign, the medical examiner will then proceed to determine whether the drowning was a result of the individual’s own failure to stay afloat or the byproduct of some underlying ailment. For this reason, there are educated assumptions which may safely be arrived at when the victim in question is young and healthy, whereas it’s not  impossible in older people that they may have died in the water as a result of a heart attack or emphysema, or some other serious medical problem.
That makes prompt identification of the body vital to a postmortem medical exam, but, of course, a corpse will always be more deeply probed in those cases where the victim’s identity is still not known or the fatality somehow looks and sounds suspicious.

108 comments:

  1. After reading this on your blog and in your book. I am curious. I quote that your blog states that the head will always be face down. So if bones were discovered in a car after 5 years and the femur was literally placed under the steering column and based on facts from the resting of the bones this person was sitting in the drivers side and his head from was placed facing the passenger seat of a car. So I am curious wouldn't this person eventually fill with gas and float up to the roof of the car? Wouldn't his skull bone be laying in the seat of the drivers side car instead of the passenger side because his head would come to face downwards or the skull even possibly fall to the drivers side floor board? Instead of facing the passenger side of the car? I'm going over an coroners report on one of these drowned boys and I seriously have some questions concerning the position this boy was lying in. I'm curious to your opinions. I have this instinctive, nagging feeling every time I read about his body position something doesn't seem right. Looking forward to hearing form you. If you ould rather not post on here you can email me at peonydoe@gmail.com Thank you.

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  2. I'm not a medical examiner, first off, so this is well-informed theorizing, at best:

    I believe the air temps at the time Javins went missing were very warm, say low 80's. So if his body (in the car) entered equally warm-ish water on that same night, then it would begin to decompose quite quickly. A day or two is probably all it would take to begin to manufacture gases in the bowels.

    Even at this early stage of decay, those gases would begin to gradually lift his body. But this would not likely turn it over, as his was by no means a classic drowning where a person out in the water collapses forward after their exhausting struggle for life ends and they died.

    In Javins case, there appears to have been no struggle at all (oddly enough) and, further, his corpse was being anchored by objects within the cramped cabin of his automobile such as the steering wheel, as well as being prevented to fully rise by the ceiling of the car.

    As I understood it, at the alleged moment his vehicle rolled off the ramp and entered the water, he was in fact facing toward the passenger seat with his legs placed there too, and his head and torso on the driver's side.

    Which, assuming on arguendo that is true, brings up your excellent question of where in those five plus years of putrefaction all his skeletal remains would naturally fall then...

    I suppose, barring marine animals nibbling on him at intervals, and swift waters now and again rushing through that 6" crack in the car window, swirling and even displacing the waters within the car while also removing and moving various "objects" inside, it may be impossible to accurately deduce this now.

    So the skull or the femur not being where they "ought to", although seemingly a valuable clue, might not be, because bones can scatter in flowing water, even when that body's confined within a small interior.

    The most important clue so far, IMHO, is that the vehicle WAS NOT THERE during police dives and sonar scans of that locale. Repeat: It was not there--a car is a hard thing not to notice--or else the police were outright lying they didn't find it.

    So the above, coupled with the fact that the autopsy report indicates the young man made no effort whatsoever to save himself, strongly suggests that Scott Javins was placed dead in his car at some other point in time (maybe days later, maybe weeks, months, who knows) and then the car was pushed into the river by the perp or perpetrators to mask, or even forever hide, the crime.

    Which it did.

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  3. I don't know why the papers say and cops say he was lieing down in his seat. Coroners say he wasn't they said his femur bones etc was under the steering wheel. I also found he had a fracture of the heel according to my nurse friend that would have been extremely, seriously painful. His mother said he never had a fracture unless he disregarded it, but my nurse friend says he could have never disregarded it, way, way, way to painful. Like a 15 on the scale or higher. HHMMM Curious. I agree w u on him being put in the water at a later date.

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  4. Questions: would drownings in rivers or harbors or reservoirs be any different? I'm thinking specifically Charles River or Boston Harbor, or a reservoir - do you know anything specific about these bodies of water which would make drownings in them different than what you've described? Does salt water vs. fresh water matter, or water that is stagnant and not flowing? Also,it took over a year for Gene Losik to surface in the Harbor. Why do you think it took him so long to surface?

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  5. Hello, Lyndsay. Yes there is a notable difference between the body of a drown victim who naturally perished in freshwater and one who naturally perished in saltwater, provided neither was a dry drowning event, of course.

    Freshwater drownings where a victim takes water into their air passages will dilute the blood considerably. Whereas in saltwater the normal water content of blood is actually reduced, thickening the blood.

    In all other respects the bodies basically manifest the same: asphyxiation, cardiac arrest, saturated lungs, water in the stomach, white foam at the mouth, irritated/swollen throat, skin slippage and degloving, muscle bruising or even rips, etc.

    Bracken water, which is rich with microbes, will likely accelerate putrefaction in a submerged corpse, especially if that water was ingested.

    Regarding Losik: I believe it was nine months, plus he didn't refloat in the spring thaw which is also odd, to say the least. My theory is the victim was anchored somehow and as his body deteriorated it slipped whatever binding was applied and then finally burst to the surface.

    I am guessing the young man was mugged and dumped right away since they never found his wallet and the cadaver dogs kept going to the same place each time--the dock.

    What do you think?

    E.R.

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  6. What about someone who was found in a pool in a warm climate (80 degrees?). How long would it take them to resurface, or would they sink at all? Would they have a bluish tinge in the face and chest 1-3 hours after death? Is it possible to commit suicide in a pool where you can stand with no wieght attached to you?

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    1. If you think the body was placed in the pool from somewhere else then ask the coroner for confirmation that the water found in the deceased's throat, nasal passages, stomach, mouth, and/or lungs is in fact chlorinated.

      Discoloration of face, torso, and extremities of the corpse can happen in a variety of deaths, including drowning. so by itself is not 100% conclusive.

      As to an adult committing suicide in a shallow pool ... erm ... might take some skill maybe ... or at least a lot of unsuccessful tries ... IMHO of course.

      E.R.

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    2. P.S. Eighty-degree water is very warm, so decomposition would be rapid with refloat possibly occurring as soon as -- or within -- 24 hours.

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  9. Is there any way to tell if a person was held under in the water they drowned in? And would there be an explanation for blood in the wrinkles on the outside of the by the cheekbone? it is claimed that she was last seen at alive on the bank of Green River near Vernal Utah at 5 p.m. on august 23 2014 and her body surfaced about 2 p.m the next day. Outside temp was in the 80s but nit sure about water temp.

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  10. What could possibly have happened to 2 missing teens off the coast of Florida went missing 2 weeks ago. Their bodies have not been discovered. is it possible they were eaten by sharks or other animals in the water?

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    1. Well, if the pair indeed drowned, their bodies would be at the bottom of the deep blue sea where, sadly, they might never be found (intact or at all, because, yes, other marine animals do nibble but water will also disintegrate their corpses over time).

      They could've been eaten by sharks before then, tho -- shark attacks are escalating and most occur on the eastern shores of the US.

      However, there is yet another, perhaps remote, possibility: Their disappearance is a hoax...

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  11. E.R. I have an autopsy report question for you regarding a story you had done earlier on my son Jeffrey Woodruff who was found in the 40°f waters of the Kalamazoo River in Saugatuck, MI April 27, 2013. From the time he was last seen at the bar till his body was recovered was 65 hours. It was then called accidental drowning case closed.
    My question.....
    The autopsy report states
    1. Rigor mortis is present but broken with relative ease.
    Red pink livor mortis extends over the anterior surfaces of the body except in areas exposed to pressure.
    Red purple liver mortis extends over the posterior surfaces of the body primarily on the head neck and back except in areas exposed to pressure.

    The corneas are somewhat cloudy.
    The sclerae are white and the conjunctivae are clear, but congested.

    Marbling of the skin of the shoulders and chest.

    Bloody fluid/purge within and exuding from the mouth and nose. (It doesn't refer to the white froth at all)



    Wouldn't this our some indicate that he died on land and was at minimum there 2 hours before being put in the river??
    Thank you for your time,
    Becky Woodruff

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    1. Hi, Becky. I do remember your son's case and working on a 'Voices for the Dead' interview ... my question regarding yours here is this: Why is there evidence of pressure if he was found in water, and where on his body was this noted? Was he lodged at the river bottom somehow .. washed up with debris onto the riverbank?

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  12. I'm investigating a 31 year old case involving a 42 year old male found in a cow pond after what the police thought to be a 10 day period. The water temp averaged approximately 43 degrees during those 10 days. The body though had little to no decomp with the exception of skin slippage at the joints and wrinkling on the hands and feet. In your estimate, how much decomp should be expected after 10 days in bacteria infested water at those temps? Thanks for any help you can throw my way!

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    1. Hey, Marty. Based on temperature/refloat charts, I would think there would have been more degloving than described, some discoloration, but mild decomposition. How deep was the pond, btw -- was the body fully submerged in it? Did it rise to the surface on its own? (Lots of variables)

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  13. The body was found floating face down; lower back up and exposed with head down submerged. There's no indication of the pond depth in the case file or autopsy report but it ranges from 3 -5 ft. Do you have an email where I can send pics? I'd like your opinion.

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    1. Not a coroner, but face-down (semi-fetal position) is statistically normal, Marty. That's shallow, tho, so drown victim should have been sighted sooner than 10 days -- do you have an autopsy file...any injuries, btw ... and what cold case is this?

      E.R.

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    3. ER,

      I understand you're not a coroner but you clearly have a level of expertise that might help. I do have the autopsy file. It's not a cold case because it was never investigated due to it being ruled a suicide, which I believe evidence will show is incorrect.
      Thanks!

      Marty

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    4. Sorry for the delay, Marty, but I also work full time at Crime Magazine -- I was thinking this case of yours sounds similar to one I wrote about a few weeks ago, and, if so, and you have docs and evidence, I would recommend approaching the state's AG. If they decline to prosecute, remember there's no statute of limitations on murder, and in crimes that involve police (and/or other public officials) the FBI has jurisdiction:

      Here's the URL to Crime Mag article titled 'A High Conspiracy to Kill Unravels in CA' to read/see/share photo etc., but should the link not work, the piece is below (text only): http://www.crimemagazine.com/high-conspiracy-kill-unravels-ca

      "Nine prominent perps are finally in jail for a high conspiracy to kill in 2012 that steadily unraveled in the years since they committed it.

      "Among those arrested this week are three California Highway Patrol officers and the powerful defense attorney they aided and abetted in the premeditated murder of a 26-year-old man whom the latter suspected of pilfering his collectibles.

      "The defendants now join their previously arraigned cohort, Robert Woody, the suspected snitch whose arrest on suspicion of murder in 2014 undoubtedly helped authorities crack the unsolved disappearance and homicide of Korey Kauffman.

      "Prosecutors say the eight taken into custody now either participated in slaying the antiques thief or actively covered up his killing -- done allegedly to “send a message” to anyone else who might view wealthy California lawyer Frank Carson as an easy target.

      "The jailed former defense attorney is accused of orchestrating “scrapper” Kauffman’s murder in the spring of 2012, and enlisting former and current members of the CHP and two prominent business owners to do his bidding in the brutal execution and subsequent cover up.

      "Key conspirators dumped the victim’s corpse in a remote area bordering Yosemite Park, where it wasn’t discovered until well over a year later when a group of hunters stumbled upon skeletal remains in the forest.

      "According to the 325-page criminal complaint, that’s when a high conspiracy to kill and conceal extended into obstruction of justice, perjury, and a coordinated effort to mislead investigators within the very police department trying to solve Kauffman’s murder.

      "For that, CHP officers Scott McFarlane, Eduardo Quintanar and Walter Wells have been jailed alongside their malevolent mastermind Frank Carson Esq., together with Carson’s wife Georgia, his daughter Christina, and two liquor merchants, Baljit and Daljit Singh Atwal.

      "Their collective crimes illustrate just how easy it is for corrupt police, public officials and prominent citizens to break the law together, and should cast new light on several cold cases around the nation with strikingly similar aspects to them." -- Eponymous Rox

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    5. E.R.,

      Interesting piece! Thanks for sharing. We are keeping all options open as the case unfolds. Thanks for the advise and if you want to review the file and offer an opinion, just let me know.

      Marty

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  14. Hi there. A person was assumed drowned 20 years ago. It is assumed that he entered the fast flowing river and ended up at sea (footprints were found entering the river). If so, would he eventually wash back ashore? Temperatures were approximately 60 degrees Fahrenheit.

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    1. It would depend on currents, temperature and distance for a body in a river to reach the sea then resurface there.

      In winter of 2007, for instance, Joshua Szostak, *fell* into the mighty Hudson River at the Port of Albany in upstate New York ... by spring his corpse had nearly reached the state of Massachusetts, before a passerby spotted it and contacted authorities...

      (That young man's *drowning* death is covered in "The Case Of the Drowning Men" too.)

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    2. Addendum to above: (sorry -- read your comment in a hurry and thought you were saying that the corpse had refloated in ocean water) Yes, there have been river drownings where the victim refloated close to shore, IF THAT'S WHERE HE OR SHE WENT UNDER AND somebody saw the body soon after it rose to the surface before it was carried away on currents.

      Water temps were constant 60 degrees ... would guess it took less than two weeks to resurface ...?

      E.R.

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  15. OK thanks. It was a 13 year old autistic boy who went missing over 20 years ago and no body was found. Police assumed he drowned because footsteps were found going into the river near his last confirmed sighting. Just strange no body was found despite a huge search from land and air.

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    1. I just recently read an interesting report on this same subject matter: Years of data have revealed that a very large percent of autistic children who go missing on their own volition head for water, where, sadly, they often are found drowned.

      This potentially-fatal fascination wasn't known 20 years ago, but now it informs search-and-rescuers as to where they should look the minute a young person with such a diagnosis is reported gone.

      (It was a joint study, I believe. If I can remember the title and source that published it I'll post that info below.)

      E.R.

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  16. Yes, I read similar. Curious why they are so fascinated with water myself, and will look further into it. Thanks.

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    1. My theory is that it's because water has many dimensions ... and it sparkles.

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  17. Yes, you could be right.

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  18. Contact www.suspiciousdeaths.net

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  20. What are the chances that a body that reportedly fell into a creek within a half an hour would be found floating down the creek? ( the creek was very high and swift moving, if that helps)

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    1. Very good chance, IMHO, if the creek was swollen. The path the corpse took to naturally reach that destination can be tested with weighted bundles. (Are you literally asking about "a body" or a live person?)

      E.R.

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    2. It would be a body. Reportedly having fallen into the creek, observed in numerous locations floating downstream before being recovered several miles downstream. No autopsy done, local coroner pronounced death due to drowning. Just curious if that is how the process would have happened, and is it only because of the height of the creek?

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  21. Hi E.R. What is the probability for two adult women (one could swim, one could not) to be drown in an outdoor hotel swimming pool without an act of foul play? They were found about 20-30 minutes after leaving their room for the pool. Is it normal that they floated in such a short time? One woman was basically dead at the scene; she was announced brain dead when arrived to the hospital. The other woman was brain dead 3 days later. Very simple procedure done by the police. Every body believe it was an accident. However, I feel something not quite right but not sure what it is. Thank you for your help.

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  22. Cathy, there is probably no bigger hazard to a good swimmer's life than attempting to rescue a bad swimmer who's drowning. Which is what likely happened here.

    Even experienced certified lifeguards have been inadvertently killed by drowning people, because such victims are so panicked they grab hold of their rescuers and pull them under in an effort to push themselves up out of the water.

    There are tricks and holds to counteract that standard reaction (e.g. actually forcing the individual underwater until they lose strength) but these lifesaving techniques have to be applied in split-seconds ... or else.

    Also, if each woman aspirated water at the same time, both could simultaneously lose consciousness, and, if found quickly thereafter (20 to 30 minutes is pretty quick), they could still be on the surface of the pool. Face down of course.

    One dying at the scene and the other a few days later from secondary-drowning complications isn't unusual either -- it's potentially lethal when any amount of liquid enters the lungs and airways, even if a person survives the initial mishap. Thus "to drown in a cup of water" is in fact quite possible.

    Absent some other proof, foul play wouldn't be suspected in the case you mention above since most drownings do occur in swimming pools during water-recreational activities. Typically, though, these victims tend to be very young, unsupervised children.

    I hope my answers have helped to ease your mind a bit. Thank you for visiting this evening and for posting.

    E.R.

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  23. Hi. If a person was found one mile off shore in Pacific ocean and it was believed their body never was at the ocean floor and fluid was in nasal cavity but there was no blue present in nasal cavity would you tend to think they did or did not drown in the ocean. The person was missing for 12 days before their body was recovered. Also no drugs in toxicology report were noted and blood alcohol level was .046. The body was recovered on December 31, 2015 near an oil rig off the coast in Huntington Beach CA. The person was reported missing in long Beach CA on Dec 19, 2015. Lastly who I ask questions regarding how the tides were moving and where the point of entry into the water when taking it into account where the body was recovered. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer me

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    1. Hi, DDA -- it sounds like the victim you're referencing was retrieved right after allegedly drowning, since soon thereafter he surely would have sank. Fluid in the nasal orifice seems consistent with an actual water fatality, but based on the BAC the individual doesn't seem to have been intoxicated at the time of death.

      You can consult with NOAA or even the U.S. Coast Guard for oceanic currents and tidal charts during December, or, better yet, with local fisherman, since they are equally knowledgeable and more inclined to quickly respond.

      Either way, let us know what you find and feel free to post an update here anytime.

      E.R.

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    2. Thanks for the reply. The medical examiner felt that the body was in the water for over one week. It is my youngest son, Zachary Briley, who I am trying to get answers about his untimely death. My son had just turned 23 and went missing on his birthday. We still don't have the autopsy report because the first investigator came back with undetermined cause of death. They did say fluid in nasal cavity, no blood in nasal passage, water in lungs, never was at bottom of ocean floor,in the water for at least one week, and confirmed his identity with right thumb print, and they did not want us to view my son's remains due to the condition of body. I am going crazy waiting for answers. My son did not like not go to the ocean so it makes it all so confusing. The detective said they are consulting with water death specialist but I don't know how true that is. My son was reported missing my me on his 23rd bkrthday, his body was recovered 12 days lwter, and they did not identify him for 40 more days. Those 52 total days of worrying and wondering was almost the death of me. If you can think of anything I can request they look more closely at please let me know. I am lost without my son. Thanks. Allison Briley

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    3. Thanks for the reply. The medical examiner felt that the body was in the water for over one week. It is my youngest son, Zachary Briley, who I am trying to get answers about his untimely death. My son had just turned 23 and went missing on his birthday. We still don't have the autopsy report because the first investigator came back with undetermined cause of death. They did say fluid in nasal cavity, no blood in nasal passage, water in lungs, never was at bottom of ocean floor,in the water for at least one week, and confirmed his identity with right thumb print, and they did not want us to view my son's remains due to the condition of body. I am going crazy waiting for answers. My son did not like not go to the ocean so it makes it all so confusing. The detective said they are consulting with water death specialist but I don't know how true that is. My son was reported missing my me on his 23rd bkrthday, his body was recovered 12 days lwter, and they did not identify him for 40 more days. Those 52 total days of worrying and wondering was almost the death of me. If you can think of anything I can request they look more closely at please let me know. I am lost without my son. Thanks. Allison Briley

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    4. Hello again, DDA. First, I am truly sorry for your loss. It does sound as if the inquiry into your young man's alleged drowning is being conducted professionally however, if there was indeed foul play, since detectives are continuing to investigate it and the coroner has left Zachary's case open with an 'undetermined' ruling. (It's usually the opposite, even if a 'drowned' male has traumatic injuries, or worse, skull fractures and/or bullet wounds.)

      It may be that investigators suspect that Zach was dead before he entered the water -- I don't know if he's been interred yet or cremated, but in either case there are likely to be fluid samples from autopsy (e.g. blood, urine, etc.) that you may want to ask the medical examiner to perform a diatom test on. Diatoms are microorganisms with hard shells impervious to decomposition and these exist anywhere there is water, including on moist land. So, if he actually aspirated seawater, these tiny creatures would have circulated throughout his system...

      Testing for the presence of diatoms -- and whether the particular breeds match the environment your son allegedly drowned in -- will aid in proving that he did actually drown. By your reservations and description (and the police and coroner's response) it could very well be that he didn't, but, instead, took in water postmortem.

      On that last note, all of this new info suggests to me that you are holding back other more pertinent facts about Zachary's case. What are they?

      E.R.

      Delete
    5. Hello. I have received the autopsy report for my son and would really appreciate it if you could review it. I am struggling with the loss of Zachary and value your opinion. I can be reached via email at findzachbriley@gmail.com. In the event you are able to review the report, please contact me and let me know where to send it. Thank you in advance for any assistance you may be able to offer me at this time.

      Delete
    6. Hello, Dilly, and apologies for the delay in responding -- do you have a digital copy of Zachary's autopsy results you can simply email me? I'm not at home base for the next several weeks so it would be easier that way, although I can check with the site admin if you only can send it hard copy.

      Also should add that I am not a medical examiner, however I would be happy to take a look at the documents to see if anything odd stands out in them.

      Let me know. In the meantime, please be well and stay strong.

      Kind regards,
      E.R.

      Delete
    7. Thank you for the reply. I do have a digital copy. Is there a particular email I should send it to? Thanks.

      Delete
    8. @Dilly - mail to eponymousrox [at] gmail [dot] com

      E.R.

      Delete
    9. @Dilly: Please forgive my delay in reviewing those autopsy docs -- I have sent you a reply by email this week -- your young man's *drowning* and the array of questionable mutilations he suffered either before during or after is definitely suspicious as well as the events that preceded his death. That's why the coroner (and police) ruled both the cause and manner of his death "undetermined."

      Zach's unsolved disappearance and drowning has since fallen off the radar, so I am going to broadcast it on Killing Killers soon. Therefore, if you have collected anymore evidentiary facts since this spring feel free to submit them here or by emailing me again.

      E.R.

      Delete
  24. My son in laws brother was found in a pond a month after he went missing.When he was discovered his spine seemed to be twisted and his head was turned to the side with his eyes open and sunken.By what I have understand all drowning victims are in a semi fetal position and their heads are always face down.Does this mean the position he was found in mean possibly foul play? Thank you

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Per your above descriptions, quite possibly, yes. Had he refloated yet when found? Or was he observed in this unusual pose at the bottom of the pond shortly after his alleged drowning? (Also, would you know if his eyes were clear, or whether there was a visible demarcation line, indicating he had died eyes-open on dry land.)

      E.R.

      Delete
  25. A young friend of my son's went swimming last Sunday and from what we have been told, he went under pretty much as soon as he went in and never came back up. Well several agencies were searching for him and finally found him Wednesday night. They didn't recover his body but left him there. Now I have been told that the current moved him and is not caught in rebar and they can't get to him. Yet they have tied a rope to him and have a camera on him and have called everything off until Monday saying he is too swollen to bring him to the surface because he would exlode. As a mother, I would want my son out as soon as his body was discovered. What are your thoughts on this reasoning?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Christina: My thoughts? Well, frankly, I think such delays and excuses sound not only highly unusual, but downright inhumane!

      E.R.

      Delete
  26. I have had this question since day one of a young man missing in the water in solano county in the month of January 2016 . There were two on the boat and drinking was involved one is aggressive while drunk and the other who was missing is not. The aggressive one stated the non aggressive one jumped off the boat . One of the victim best friend said the deck was a mess stuff everywhere after finding out the morning he was missing in the water. I have known the victim for over 10 years and he is an experienced boater and it was his boat they were on. My first thought was foul play knowing the victim would not jump in the water in winter months. My question to you is his body was in a different locations then where the agressive one said he so called jumped off then said he fell overboard missing in the water for one month two weeks and five days what are the chances of optopsy finding foul play or could they till if he was pushed overboard from a confrontation on the boat? I have no rest from this and it weighs heavy on my heart as if a message is being revealed to me. He was found in suisun bay on march 10th 2016

    ReplyDelete
  27. He was found march 5 th suisun bay

    ReplyDelete
  28. @Anon March 22d & 25th: If this is Danny Calderon's man-overboard drowning, I agree with you that it's suspicious. However, take heart for now, since his death does appear to be still under investigation for possible foul play. A spokesperson for the local sheriff's dep't expressed similar doubts as to the lone survivor's account, stating that it's “not typical for someone to jump into the water in that area late at night, especially in the inclement weather, so our investigators are continuing to look at all options.”

    A proper inquiry will reveal more than an autopsy at this point, I fear, unless of course he was thrown in the water already dead...

    If you have additional info then perhaps I would be inclined to do a separate piece about the case -- that will keep the matter in the news for you.

    My condolences, btw. Very troubling and tragic.

    E.R.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Hi I want to ask my brother drowned at the river and his eyes was closed.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Anon 3/31/16: Well, contrary to Hollywood depictions, drowning is not a peaceful way to die; it's actually quite traumatic although relatively swift.

      In fact, a significant percentage of water fatalities were found to have struggled so frantically to stay alive that they ripped chest, shoulder and neck muscles.

      It's rather doubtful, IMHO, that any victim battling for life would simply close his eyes...

      E.R.

      Delete
  30. If a body is found in the traditional semi-fetal head down, rearend-up position, does it eliminate most concern for homicide?

    This is in regard to a man you actually had written about who went missing from a bar and was found in a shallow pond months later. He was found in this position, but I'm still having a really hard time believing he drowned in water he could wade through.

    I just don't buy it. =[

    ReplyDelete
  31. @Anon 4/3/16: Some concern about its authenticity can be eliminated since that's a normal death pose. But any non-recreational drowning should still be treated as suspicious, especially if it wasn't witnessed by anyone.

    As to a shallow pond -- yes, people can drown in very small bodies of water or even (as noted in the book excerpt above) in a cup of water). Some pond bottoms can act almost like quicksand, too; the mud making it difficult to get out of.

    I'm sorry for the delay in replying, but somehow I overlooked this question. Thank you for visiting the site and for commenting!

    E.R.

    ReplyDelete
  32. curious, writing a mystery novel. in what case would the body not resurface? experienced killers allegedly puncture the abdomen/intestine area to allow faster decomposition and allow gas to escape.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Anon May 15th: Whole bodies might not refloat if they're submerged in constantly cold and very deep water (the Great Lakes, for instance, and some oceans) or if consumed by marine life.

      E.R.

      Delete
  33. I have been deeply looking into the case of Elisa Lam. Well as deeply as I can on what I can find. The girl went missing in LA 2013 and was found 19 days after last seen floating face up in the water tank above the Cecil hotel. I have read over and over about her supposed " drowning" and I just can not shake the feeling that non of it is right. Are you familiar with the case and do you have anything to add? I originally started reading to find out if drugs or alcohol could have been present but decayed along with the body it being there for so long. Then I read about drown people being found in this so what "fetal" position... The guy at the Cecil who found her said in court docs that her found her face up and knew she was Asian... Wouldn't she be almost unrecognizable by that point and why was she face up??? Now this is really driving me crazy!!! Thanks for your time and any input.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Hi. I've been reading a lot about the Natalie Wood case. One source reported that her autopsy report indicates she may have been unconscious upon entering the water due to the "specific levels of urine found in her bladder. . 300 cc's to be exact. Can you explain how this leads one to this conclusion? It's also my understanding she was in the water for 6 or 7 hours before she was found. However, the rescue man who pulled her out indicated
    she wasn't dead long because her fingers were still pliable and the autopsy report states there was no rigor mortis at the time she was pulled from the water. Thank You

    ReplyDelete
  35. @Anon May 19th - If those figures are accurate then Wood's bladder was filled to 'void' capacity (not totally full though). Meaning, had she truly been conscious when she went overboard her husband's yacht, she would have had an almost uncontrollable urge to urinate, especially upon entering the water and struggling to stay afloat. (Indeed, prior to that, she would have needed to break away from their long dragged out quarrel so to empty her half-full bladder.)

    Rigor mortis: This 'stiffening' state is temporary and can be affected by a victim's physical attributes as well as ambient temperature, etc. Wood was a slender female, thus not a lot of muscle mass, and the ocean could have been just cold enough to delay the onset. Certainly 6 to 7 hours would not have been long enough for her corpse to begin to seriously decompose (automatically causing it to 'relax' again).

    Natalie Wood's faked drowning death, autopsy, diagrams and more, is discussed in some detail in the 2013 premier issue of 'Hunting Smiley' since it has parallels to Joshua Swalls' case in 2012. Like Swalls, Wood displayed suspicious bruising and abrasions inflicted well before death -- in Wood's case a few such wounds she received that same day but others about two or more days in advance...

    Thanks for these interesting questions!

    E.R.

    ReplyDelete
  36. This case occurred in a nearby school where a boy of age 16 drowned in the swimming pool. As the boy's mother who herself went for swimming couldn't locate his son she shouted for help. The boy was brought up immediately. The swimming instructor pressed his chest and he vomited out some water after which foam came out of his mouth. He was then taken to the hospital where he was pronounced dead. This case remains a mystery to me as
    1.the boy's body was recovered from a depth of 5.5ft
    2.there were many people in the pool and if he did sink in the water he would have reached out for help and done something that should have caught somebody's attention.
    I wanna know your views on this case, can you help me out?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Drowning is typically silent and discreet even in crowded, public waterways. A skilled lifeguard therefore knows to do head-counts of the swimmers in their waters and to take special note of the nonswimmers thrashing about too, who, frankly, are the most obvious potential victims. Then she or he keeps diligently counting those heads and nonswimmers until her or his shift finally ends!

      E.R.

      Delete
  37. A few days ago a body was pulled from a near by creek. Eight months ago there was a police chase and the man being chased ran into the creek. Police said they saw the current take him but then stated they chased a guy in a few weeks before and he was fine. So didn't really search that hard. With that being said, there was a body found near where he went in. By the evening the family of this missing person was asking for money to bring his body home. i heard a month ago he was alive and well in Reno. So my question is...After 8 months in the water, through winter then a hot summer, How can they tell its him so quick? What would even be left? Would clothes have even survived that long?

    ReplyDelete
  38. My cousin drowned early september 2016 in waco tx.. He was a fit and athletic person. The friend who was there said my cousin didnt want to go in the water because he was afraid.I emailed the friend who "attempted" to save him. The friend wont respond bc I asked to know the full story start to finish bc the police deemed an autopsy unneccessary. Something isnt right with this story. Could u check out the link provided with the friend's news interview (which he said didnt tell the full story, which is why I asked what the full story is in a respectful manner.)

    http://www.kwtx.com/content/news/392262961.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. First of all I would like to extend my deepest condolences to the family of Christopher Charleston. I know from personal experience the grief and disbelief that you are experiencing. I followed the link you provided and read the article as well as watched the news segment where the friend who attempted to save Christopher was interviewed. When reading the article I was surprised that an autopsy was not performed. As a parent if the officials would not require one, I would have tried my best to get a private autopsy performed for my personal satisfaction and attempt at finding closure. The article made it seem real casual with how the friend was reliving this tragedy but I thought maybe the writer of the article just failed to convey the magnitude of the circumstances. Wow, was I wrong. After watching the interview of the friend who wished to remain annonymous and was claiming to be the one who went to render aid to Christopher, I was shocked at his casual and rehearsed reenactment of what took place right before his friend died. He didn't appear to be upset, sincere, or affected by this horrible unexpected event. It also was a red flag to me for him to want to conceal his identity. Why wouldn't he want to be credited for such a heroic effort to try to save a friends life? And, back to no autopsy...is this friend the son of an official for that town/jurisdiction? Why was no regard given to the deceased. His family deserves real answers and not just some kid rattling off a dialog. Once again, my heart goes out to those hurting and grieving the loss of Christopher. May they find the answers and closure. I know for me personally it is a daily struggle.

      With Sympathy,
      Allison Briely, Los Angeles, CA

      Delete
    2. @Anon 9/21: Definitely an autopsy should have been done, even if the drowning was "witnessed." At the very least, so to determine precisely why your cousin couldn't stay afloat. One would think, because it's a premature death, cops and the coroner would want to rule out that another party was at all responsible, even if accidentally. For many, including myself, testimony provided in this case sounds too dubious to be solely relied upon, quite frankly.

      I am very sorry for your loss.

      E.R.

      Delete
  39. Hi I was wondering if you could answer a question for me, my brother was found in a canal in Wigan in England. He had been missing for 4 weeks, but he wasn't in the canal for that amount of time. My brother was found in the standing position with his face fully submerged, his face was the only part of him to be badly decomposed. Do you think this is normal?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Unknown 10/1/2016: NO. I do not think your brother's death normal by any means. However, if air temps averaged much warmer than the water that the rest of his body was submerged in, then his face would decompose at a faster rate.

      Question: When exactly did this occur? Was the canal fairly shallow at the time? Does it's level fluctuate? Does it have a muddy and/or weedy bottom that he could have gotten his feet trapped in?

      And ay other details you can provide here would be useful too, as this bizarre *drowning* is bound to get our readership asking for more info!

      Condolences, friend. RIP to your brother.

      E.R.

      Delete
  40. Hi thanks for the reply, this happened on the 7th March 2016,at this time the weather was quite cold. The canal as far as I can tell doesn't fluctuate in terms of height at anytime, the bottom of the canal is muddy but the police said that he wasn't caught on anything. I can't understand how he would be standing up otherwise unless he was put in the canal after he died and Rigor Mortis had set in, and someone pushed him into that position. My brothers death was ruled as drowning but with an open conclusion by an inquest.

    ReplyDelete
  41. @ Lydon: Very freakish if by drowning -- I agree with your hypothesis, Lydon, not the official ruling, but will have to do some research on it. Hopefully others who drop by the site during the week will posit some theories of their own on this one. It's a stumper.

    Rivers, lakes, canals, etc., are certainly cold enough in March to kill, and can do so quickly. But was there any evidence at autopsy that your brother had in fact aspirated canal water...?

    E.R.

    ReplyDelete
  42. It wasn't confirmed at Autopsy that my brother had any water in his lungs at all, the conclusion they came to at autopsy was cause of death unknown. It was only when they done the toxicology tests did they give the cause of death as drowning. They said he had water in his lungs then, they never said canal water.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Also I am using my son's name to comment on this blog as I don't have a email address, my name is Pamela Harper. My brothers name is Mervyn Craig, he left northern-ireland on the 28th of January and went to stay with a girl in Wigan called Lisa Kilmartin. He went missing on the 8th of February and he was found in the canal on his birthday, the 7th of March.

    ReplyDelete
  44. It wasn't confirmed at Autopsy that my brother had any water in his lungs at all, the conclusion they came to at autopsy was cause of death unknown. It was only when they done the toxicology tests did they give the cause of death as drowning. They said he had water in his lungs then, they never said canal water.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Okay, Pamela, seems very odd all across the board. Water would surely be present at autopsy (e.g. stomach, lungs, circulatory system) if it and any native diatoms were detected in his blood at the tox test stage.

      But I will need to gather more info on Mervyn's disappearance and alleged drowning to provide better responses here, as -- apologies -- I'm not familiar with the facts of his case yet.

      E.R.

      Delete
  45. There was only water found in the lungs, no water in his stomach or anywhere else in the body. My brother was on medication for a number of illnesses including diabetes, high blood pressure and high cholesterol although he wasn't taking these before his death. The only medication he took was an antidepressant, but at inquest we were told he had another 2 antidepressants in his system. The girl who he was staying with, is a known drug user and I have just received a letter from the police to say that my brother was more than likely given the antidepressants by the girl he was staying with.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just did a prelim, Pamela, and that is enough already to conclude that your 46-year-old brother's death while visiting England is as suspicious as hell.

      Disregarding Mervyn's (known) health issues, the suspicious parties he met up with in the UK prior to his *drowning* there, as well as the sensitive matter of his jailed son Ryan ... these alone could easily provide a motive for revenge and, worse, murder.

      And no matter the reason, nobody has the right to maim or murder someone.

      I feel bad for you and yours about this case, and am very, very disgusted that the authorities appear to have dropped the ball.

      E.R.

      Delete
  46. I am only too happy to answer any questions you may have about my brother and the case, I am sure if you type in my brothers name and put missing beside it you will get some information about the case.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Thank you very much, I am still trying to get the answers to what happened to my brother while he was in Wigan. I am continuing to contact the police with the help of the local Mps in my Area, I will always keep fighting for my brother as I know that something isn't right. I really appreciate your help and support.

    ReplyDelete
  48. I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart as you are the only person besides my husband and I that believe something more serious happened to my brother, other than what the police say. He was a gentleman who would do anything to help anyone who needed help, he was kind and caring. The police just wanted a open and shut case, they released the body far to quickly after the Autopsy so his wife could have him cremated. This was against my family's wishes, so now we can't get any further tests done to determine what or how he died.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You're welcome, Pamela, though, rest assured, I am not the only other person to suspect foul play in your brother's death.

      Despite his cremation, there are probably still autopsy and toxicology samples in storage at the medical examiner's office, and, of course, you probably have the written findings already. So, all is not lost should you succeed in having these reexamined.

      As you can see, I am still pondering Mervyn's case this morning after our discussion here yesterday, and I was wondering if you could email me docs verifying that his body was indeed found submerged in the canal "standing" up. If so, send this to eponymousrox[at]gmail[dot]com.

      Also, assuming he was upright, were the feet both intact when his body was retrieved from the water? Or were these damaged or even missing altogether?

      What was the young woman's name who lured him from Ireland to Manchester UK; how old was she; and did she have any prior arrests/convictions? That city, by the way, is a hotspot for men disappearing and drowning, though usually younger ones, engaged, more or less, in similar activities as Mervyn was.

      E.R.

      Delete
  49. Hi E. R., I have the autopsy report from the coroner's office, I will have a look at it now for you and email it as soon as possible. My brothers feet were both in tact when he was found, he was still wearing his socks and trainers when retrieved from the canal. The young lady was called Lisa Kilmartin, she is approximately 37 years old, she was arrested for cannabis and amphetamine possession when my brother was missing. As you will see when you look her up, she has had a very hard time in her past. This however doesn't excuse her behavior now, she has had her 2 children taken from her by social services. I have read about the increase in men ending up in the canal around the Wigan and Manchester area.

    ReplyDelete
  50. I have just had a look at the Autopsy report, it says that my brother was floating but the fire and rescue staff that made a statement said that my brother was found floating in an upright plane. This was also stated by the police officer who attended the scene.

    ReplyDelete
  51. I have just had a look at the Autopsy report, it says that my brother was floating but the fire and rescue staff that made a statement said that my brother was found floating in an upright plane. This was also stated by the police officer who attended the scene.

    ReplyDelete
  52. A body was recovered from Francois Lake in British Columbia after 29 years. It was found by sonar, while searching for a recent drowning victim

    ReplyDelete
  53. Backstory:
    June 25th 2016, a paid student researcher went missing in High Rock Lake Reservoir, North Carolina. The student was 24, active in cross-fit, passed level 5 red cross swimming evaluation, and had no previous medical abnormalities. As part of a team building exercise the group went to the lake where several members started swimming, it was shortly after that the student went missing. 911 was called 2 hours after the disappearance in water, the body was recovered 21 hours after disappearance... in the same location he was last seen. This despite sonar & cadaver dogs searching the same area for hours (recovery took place 3 minutes into searching the next day). This area of the reservoir which at it's deepest point of the immediate vicinity is 8 ft deep (overall deepest point of main channel is between 30-40 ft) has residents with water access, boats / jet skis.

    Sheriff's took lead on recover and investigation despite procedure of North Carolina Wildlife Resource Commission investigating deaths in their regulated bodies of water.

    Questions:
    Summary of autopsy lists no head trauma but at the same time says "On the right frontal parietal scalp is a 1 x 1/2" palpable depression of crepitant scalp..." as well as red / brown drainage from the right ear, his right eye's contact lens missing (left was still in), and the right tympanic membrane wasn't evaluated instead listed as "may be obscured by drainage." Wouldn't those signs compound to suggest head trauma to the right side?

    Autopsy was performed in June, Toxicology was finished in August, sent back to the state's Chief Medical Examiner in October, and autopsy report was completed in January. In your opinion is this a normal timeline?


    Additional:
    No bruising or tears in the shoulders and chest muscles noted or reported.

    I can send a PM or email of the autopsy, toxicology, 911 call (personal info redacted pursuant to North Carolina law)and timeline of events as well as further details & information. Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Anon 1/15/17: Apparently drowned unconscious -- either struck his head upon entering shallows or was struck in the head and dumped there.

      So ... it depends on whether your young man had a lethal enemy in determining if his premature death warrants further investigation.

      Autopsies may seem quick to perform and deduce on TV, by the way, but it really does take some time and very careful analysis after the various test results come in to determine cause plus manner of death.

      My sincerest condolences to you and yours. Truly hate these cases now.

      E.R.

      Delete
    2. Thank you for the reply.

      Having studied forensics in school I understand the difference between fiction and the slow wheels of bureaucracy; the timeline question was more directed at the time frame from October to January. What would make it take 3 months to write the eventual 1/2 page summary, with no decisive conclusion? And is it normal for the pathologist that performs the autopsy to review their own work?

      It has been my belief he was struck unconscious, subsequently drowned, and his body concealed during the first day of attempted recovery.

      I have yet to come across another explanation as to why Sonar, cadaver dogs, divers, drag nets in clear, warm, shallow water, couldn't locate him within a narrow area of the reservoir on the first day.

      I don't know about lethal enemy but the caller and a water motorist seen in the area are both associated with members of the Sheriff's office (hence the concern of that office taking jurisdiction from NCWRC).

      The incoming 911 call was pinged by the operator a good distance from where the caller claimed to be and the call was made on speaker phone with someone that can be heard coaching responses in the background.

      Caller was reportedly not at the water when calling or during the disappearance, according to witnesses (other student researchers & local residents).

      The case remains open.

      Delete
  54. EDIT: My above reply was in fact intended for Anon 1/25/17, not "Anon 1/15/17" -- sorry for the typo!

    ReplyDelete

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    ReplyDelete
  56. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  57. This Is About My Brother Danny:

    We Have No Cause Of Death Yet,No Obvious Trauma and Don't have the report back yet.
    Danny was Found By the Coast Guard on 4/13/17 Floating in the middle of Muskegon Lake with Only his pants,belt and socks on and had been in the water for some time. He had been missing without leads, activity on bank cards, social media,phone,Gps,Or Contact of any kind to anyone since leaving home on 11/26/16.We have begged police to search And list him as endangered since reporting him missing Dec 1st but most of the time they didn't know he was missing. Much The Same on the day Danny's Body was Recovered (4/13/17) We found out by hearing a body of a white male was Being Recovered from the lake and trying to be identified on the news and rushed down to see if it was him....He was there 4 hours and Danny was the only possibility who he could be due to the description and his still very visible tattoos yet they decided to let have to find out like on our own! He was missing his shoes,shirt, underwear,coat, wallet and phone and the ME said the water could have took it all away....We don't understand How or Why He Would There? It's not a Normal place for him to be.....

    I Including some Articles:
    My Mom's Interview When Dan Was Missing:
    http://woodtv.com/2017/01/02/mom-praying-for-miracle-to-find-missing-son-alive/

    When They Found Dan's Body:
    http://woodtv.com/2017/04/13/body-found-in-muskegon-lake-is-missing-man/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We Got the Autopsy back and it just makes me more suspicious...I really think someone did something to my brother but she said based on the information she has her likely drowned....She didn't even say if water was in his lungs and how can they be free of foreign matter if he drown in a lake!? If there is somewhere I can send the pictures I took of the report so someone can give me an Opinion??

      Delete
  58. My daughter age 24 years, unmarried committed suicide in the dam water (Khadakwasla dam, Pune, India) on 19 September 2016. Postmortem (P.M.) report seems suspicious. It states, lungs are full with water but only 30 ml of water was present in stomach. She was talking on mobile till 11 am and body was found floating at 4.30 pm on the same day. Water at the spot was 8 feet deep. It was not possible to jump, one has to walk to go deep into water. This seems difficult because she was very much afraid of water and never entered even 1 foot deep water since childhood. In the P.M. report, no Chemical analysis was done, no blood samples were taken, Viscera was not preserved, condition of clothes was not mentioned. There was grass at the spot, but no grass, nothing was observed in the hands. Every thing seems to be suspicious.
    Please guide....

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  59. This article is interesting it gives me some idea how my friend died in the lake. So her body could not turn to bones after 40 yrs. It sounds like the epidermis is strong enough to withstand waterlogging. Is this a correct way to think about her death thanks

    ReplyDelete
  60. Hello. I see that someone above asked a question about Elisa Lam but you didn't respond. I am curious about her as well. She was missing for 19 days and found floating face up in the water tank of the Cecil Hotel in Los Angeles. This was in February of 2013. According to news reports, it was relatively cool during that time, but I haven't found any evidence that the police or the coroner noted the temperature of the water. Furthermore, she didn't have any water in her lungs, yet "drowning" was listed as the cause of death.

    My questions to you are: 1. Like the above poster, after more or less 19 days in "cool" water, would her face be recognizabe as Asian? 2. Is it not customary for someone to test the temperature of the water to determine how long the body had been in it? and 3. Can you drown and have no water in your lungs?
    Thank you!

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  61. I have a question about a man that was found in the Rifle River near skidway lake in Michigan. No one had seen him or heard from him since Wednesday evening. His truck was found by hunters at 1pm Thursday and called into police at 6pm because it was still running. He was found almost 72 hours after his truck was first spotted. He was found in the river but where they believe he went in at and where he was found at was a pretty far distance. He was found face down and hooked onto a log about 5 feet from the shoreline. He didn't have any fluid in the lungs or other free fluid in the body. Lividity was only noted on his back and mostly in his lumbar. He had dried leaves in his scalp and the cause of death was asphyxiation secondary to aspiration. Does this sound like something that is consistent with someone who went into the water alive and drowned accidently?

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  62. Hello, I have a question that I hope you could help with.
    My 27 year old brother went missing on Jan 10, 2017 and was found in the lake on June 17, 2017. The autopsy reports that he was identified by finger prints and that his tattoos were completely visible. It also states that he was found straight as a board with arms above his head. It also states that he was 5 foot but he was actually 5'10.
    Would all of this be right of a body supposed to be in water for that long?

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  63. I want someone to explain to me how a man can tie his hands and feet with rope then tie cement also around waist and jump in water to commit suicide? That’s what our local newspaper is calling this death!

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  64. My husband’s (we were separated - not legally)last call was a 5 minute call to his identical twin brother at 9:35 pm on 6/16/2020. His fully clothed (minus footwear)body washed up on shore at 2pm the next day about 4 miles north of where his car was parked (car had 2 tickets issued by local police at 10:15 pm 6/16/2020) - his car was parked 1 hour from the house he lived in but a couple of blocks away from a cousin who claims he had not seen him.A homicide officer is on the case but his initial reaction was suicide because the identical twin said that my husband was depressed. I haven’t received the autopsy report )they said they are waiting for toxicology or the police report because it is an open investigation. I am not aware of the exact time line or exact locations because of this. I had to identify his body via a black and white photo of his face - he looked peaceful and about 20 years younger then usual - additionally he had some abrasions on his forehead (they said possibly from rocks) and his nose looked as it was broken. Although he did suffer from depression, things are not adding up- Firstly, he hated the bay/pond but love the ocean, he was an excellent swimmer, there was no note (he prides himself on writing and giving reasons for everything he did), he always entered the water shitless, with trunks OR boxers OR nude. He also had plans for Father’s Day and for travel to visit a good friend the following week. His wallet and phone was found in his car. He had just got a new radio, 4 new tires and a new battery in the car days before.
    When he was reported missing (not sure if the exact time because I don’t have the reports) and when he was found is a short window- he had just received access to a big lump sum of money but I cannot access it to see if money was deposited or taken out of the account in the days leading up to and after his death the temporary death certificate Is delayed because of COVId and my kids and I would need to go to probate court after we receive it.
    I want to ensure a full investigation is launched- I would like camera footage of him driving into the lot and getting out of the car (or any indication that he was alone), the clothes that we got back shows stains that look like blood on the otherwise brand new looking t- shirt yet the medical examiner only sai minor abrasions, the cousin who was not answering calls the entire day of 6/17/2020 suddenly goes to the police station is the first one to find out about his death- there are so many other things that make me question suicide.
    Is there anything that I would be requesting, doing or asking the medical examiner or police to make sure his death is fully investigated?

    Thank you

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  65. Hi I live in Stockton California a little neighborhood called OkieVille. It Was a tight knit all white community. My son Kenneth Wade Felchle Jr. 17 1/2 when found floating in canal just blocks from home.He Grew up here and knew alot of people. He moved to Napa to be with his dad. He found a girlfriend and they moved from Napa to Stockton to live with us. The neighborhood is basically Poor and the girl he was with is from a well to do family.So when he came home he dressed different and had grown up alot.The story is he was partying with friends and girlfriend Friday night then just disappeared.2 days before my son ask if I seen his girl with his friends I said no he said Im gonna stab Gilbert (friend)for screwing with my girl. Friday night he was partying with Gilbert n girlfriend and others. One friend that was with him last gave 4 different stories Ave where he last seen my son a week later a passerby found my son floating in the canal face down arms out 1st the detectives came and said he had overdosed on methamphetamine and drowned that was the day after he was found then the case became a suspicious case there is 92 + pages on his report a people they questioned but never re questioned or questioned at all so a lot of follow-up was not done this was an 2008 and if you look up Sheriff Moore Steve Moore Stockton California you will see that he was changing homicides to Accidental drownings he also cut off hands to send for fingerprinting he does a lot of dirty things so when talks ology came back they told me he did not overdose and they had to reopen the case suspicious death at this time I started putting up Flyers before he was found he was missing a week they cannot tell me how long he was in the water how long you is dead so the detective ended up closing the case because on his death certificate it said accidental drowning but the detective pet his case in Crime Stoppers as homicide she called me and told me not to panic but she put his case in Crime Stoppers I'm involved with a lot of groups citizens against homicide came to Stockton from Murphy's to talk with the detective because there is very little water on his lungs also there is no mention of fingernail clippings to see if he's struggled in the water he had bruises on the back of his hands on his Shins and a two and a half inch purple glistening bruise at Mid Optical of his head he used to carry around a little tire Checker bat the bat was missing for a year after he died it showed up in his girlfriend's car at that guy's house Gilbert I just find it hard to believe that in the little neighborhood nobody knows where my son went the action of the people involved after his death speaks louder than anything it has been 12 years I have had the case reopened twice I've had the chief of police tell me he does not believe it was an accidental drowning I am so disgusted

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  66. IdisgustedI put up over 500 crime stopper flyers on neighborhood because they kept getting ripped down. When I got police report it mentioned a few people that were questioned at police department. I did not know the people but a woman said she heard this person killed my son.when questioned the person denied even knowing my son I believe he knew him because he hung out with same people.Years after case closed received a letter from police to pick up my son's evidence clothing he was wearing when he drowned.On the evidence sheet his hat was not mentioned so I would go to canal when it was low and see if that showed up. I tried not to open evidence box but had to. In his hoodie there was his hat. With hair dirt ect on it.Also blonde hairs on his shirt and back of pants twisted up and dirt all over like he was dragged.We have a knew Sheriff now and he's familiar with sons case Our group Victims of Violent Crime went in front of board of supervisors pleading for a Cold Case detective. The new sheriff Pat Withrow opened a Cold Case Unit and was at that meeting approached me and told me he's getting detectives so lets see what we can do in your sons case. I don't know why I'm stalling I investigated my sons case for 8 + years and felt like I was banging my head against the wall I was exhausted physically and mentally I went around my neighborhood with a gun and an attitude telling people I was just looking for names but I have been offered the case for over 2 years I had to take a break now I'm kind of afraid to find out the truth because of what I might do to who ever killed my child

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    1. What do you think closed as accidental but was suspicious until I notified detective that I have life or burials coverage for my son within two days they came up with a accidental drowning after waiting two and a half months of them saying he overdosed on methamphetamine. About a week before this he told me that his best friend was screwing around with his girlfriend who he just found out was 2 months pregnant he was 17 and a half and could swim well and hold his breath underwater for long periods in the autopsy he had a purple glistening bruise at the mid optical of his head very little water on the lungs and bruising at The shins and wrist. He was the type that would fight toe to toe if need be he's stuck up for the underdog all the time but two days before his disappearance he said he does want to stab that friend that was supposed to be messing with his girlfriend. Then rumor came around that three other guys in the neighborhood got paid $200 to get rid of his body in the canal blocks from home and just last year one of the guys sucker punched me in the face my son was missing for a week and his own neighborhood that we knew everybody or thought we did then one day someone calls and said they found a body of the canal and sure enough it was my child. I believe the mid optical of the back of the head can paralyze you do you have any idea thank you

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  67. My 17 year old son went missing 18 months ago and his body has just been found in a nearby lake. The detectives said he was found in the middle of this small lake without arms or a head but still has tissue on his lower half. My question is how long does a body actually float and if his arms got tangled up on an underwater branch, how long until the rest of his body is detached to float up to the surface? The detectives told us it takes 18 months....is this plausable? and does the body last this long in the water floating? We live in WA state and my husband and I are having a hard time believing any of this. They are marking it as a cold case. We just want to know if there was any foul play and the timeline of death. Thank you in advance if you have any kind of answers.

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  68. 2017 last comments from E.R. is page still good?

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